New-to-me 1898 Krag-Jørgensen

"Rock Bottom" (rockbottom81) 01/06/2015 at 19:36 • Filed to: None

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I love old, historically significant machines. Early farm tractors, steam locomotives, antique automobiles, vintage bicycles, side-wheel steamers, and old guns all get me worked up. So this past week I purchased my first vintage firearm: an 1898 Krag-Jørgensen, popularly called a ".30-40 Krag". I didn't mean to buy it, but I saw it and I had to have it. It was definitely an emotional purchase. Ammo is expensive (about $2 a round), it has less muzzle energy than a 308, the round doesn't fly as well as a 7-08 or .30-06, and it's heavy. But damn if it isn't a truly impressive old machine to hold in your hands!

A bit of history: The Krag-Jørgensen was born in the late 1800s in Norway. One of it's main competitors at the time was the Mauser, a German design that survived to fight WW2. These two would face off in the Spanish-American War, where the Mauser was found to be a superior weapon due to it's higher velocity round and faster reloading times. This disparity in performance led to the design of the 1903 Springfield, which served the US Army well in WW1 and in special situations in WW2.

For the most part, the Krag acts a lot like any other old bolt-action rifle. The major exception is the layout of the magazine. In most bolt-actions (like a Mauser, Springfield 1903, Mosin-Nagant, etc) the rounds stack vertically and are loaded from the top with the bolt open. In a Krag-Jørgensen, the rounds are arranged horizontally under the bolt and are loaded though a flip-down door on the side of the rifle (as you can see in the above pics). This made it possible to top the magazine off without cycling the bolt, but meant you couldn't quickly reload with a stripper-clip like you could with most of it's competitors. For a casual shooter, the magazine door is a novelty. In a war zone where speed is key, I can see how much of a pain it must have been to flip the door open, carefully place the rounds in, one at a time, then close the door, cycle the bolt, and get back to business.

This particular rifle was originally a "standard" version, as opposed to the shorter "carbine" or "scabbard" version. The standard length Krag was issued to infantry who (it was believed) may need to engage an enemy at great distance, while the carbine was used by cavalry or in other situations where a shorter rifle was preferred. At the time, it was thought that battles may be decided by the army with the "longest reach", so many rifles of this generation and the one after it fired large and powerful rounds and the rifles had pretty long and heavy barrels. They were really quite a bit like hunting rifles. Some time after WW2 it was realized that most soldiers never engaged an enemy at long range, so the smaller and less powerful rifles that most soldiers carry today were born. Of course you will still see long rifles with powerful rounds on the battlefield today (think Light .50 or .338 Lapua), but they are very limited in use.

The US Army held on to a large inventory of Krags until the 1920s, when they sold them off on the surplus market. Many of these were "sporterized", with a shortened stock and different sights to make them more suitable for hunting or sport shooting. Originally, the stock extended almost the entire length of the barrel. Also, note the Lyman 57K sights that were installed sometime in the last century. I am missing the aperture reducer for the rear sight, so I need to do a little shopping before trying to really test my marksmanship.

You can also see that this rifle has a metal butt plate. Many modern rifles have a nice, soft, comfy rubber pad on the stock here, but that wasn't the way things were done in the late 1800s. I'm not terribly worried, since the .30-40 Krag round packs less muzzle energy than a .308 or a 7-08. I've fired an old Mosin-Nagant with a metal butt plate and that kicked pretty damn hard, but it also had quite a bit more muzzle energy. I can always go all Stalingrad on it and wrap an old rag around the butt to cushion my shoulder... or just man-up and deal with it. I'll probably just do that.

When I bought it, the bolt action was crisp and smooth. Then I completely disassembled, cleaned, and lubed it (the first thing you should do when buying any used firearm). Now the action is absolutely fantastic! I mean, these Krag-Jørgensens are known to have great feeling actions, but this is better than anything I could have hoped for! Absolutely fantastic feeling rifle.

Overall, the rifle is in 7/10 condition. It has a few threaded holes where a scope was once mounted to the barrel and the stock is in average condition for a rifle of this age. I am actively looking for the "right" scope to mount on it, so that'll cover the less than great looking gunsmithing. I haven't had a chance to fire it yet, but I can't wait to see how it behaves. Of course, I need to be careful for financial reasons! At almost $40 a box, ammo isn't cheap!

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 19:46

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I always loved those things, especially the looks of the sideways mag. Just looked online, apparently Forgottenweapons hasn't gotten around to doing an episode about this guy yet.

Also, it's been a long-ass time since we've had a gunlopnik thread. Thank you sir.

Funktheduck > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 19:46

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Sweet find. I can't seem to find old guns at reasonable prices at the shops I visit.

Rock Bottom > Funktheduck 01/06/2015 at 19:51

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Try looking for local gun shows. I bought this at a store (got super lucky), but I see old rifles in all conditions and price ranges at gun shows. It's also a great place to talk shop with the old guys! They know all the useful little maintenance and shooting tricks and usually have some neat stories!

Alfalfa > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 19:53

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The bolt action tube feed is certainly neat. I'm a little jelly. Not too jelly mind you, because I myself have an 1895 Mauser that love to death.

Rock Bottom > vdub_nut: scooter snob 01/06/2015 at 19:53

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Yeah, next to a Schmidt-Rubin I think these are about the coolest old rifles around. I seriously just sit on my basement couch and play with the magazine door!

Rock Bottom > Alfalfa 01/06/2015 at 19:54

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Ah, a 19th century Mauser! That must be a sweet machine to fire! Is it hard to find ammo?

Oh, and the mag is actually not a tube. 5 rounds just sit side by side under the bolt. It's like your Mauser, but with the mag rotated 90 degrees.

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 19:55

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My buddy got a K11 recently, super jealous. All I have is a war ravaged plain-Jane Mosin 91/30 in the way of milsurp.

Trunk Impaired 318 > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 19:57

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Sweet! I love old military rifles, sadly all Ive got is a Mosin and a Carcano. Im still trying to find a somewhat reasonable price on a Lee Enfield and Mauser but that'll probably never happen.

Rock Bottom > vdub_nut: scooter snob 01/06/2015 at 19:59

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Mosins are awesome! In typical Soviet fashion, they are impervious to dirt or the elements, and you gotta love anything that fires a round that angry! Nothing sounds quite as serious as a Mosin!

vdub_nut: scooter snob > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 20:02

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Plus, you know, eighteen inch cruciform bayonet in case fascist pigs (or bacon filled ones in need of roasting) get in your way. My buddy (same one) has a 91/30 and an m44, that thing throws some FIREBALLS, DAMN.

ALSO YOUR AVATAR IS KILLING ME

Alfalfa > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 20:03

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Oh I see. That certainly is strange.

And the Mauser is an absolute blast to fire. The iron sights are always dead-on, and it goes through just about everything. Ammo was hard to find at first, but I found some great rounds online for a good price.

Rock Bottom > Trunk Impaired 318 01/06/2015 at 20:03

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Mosins are great rifles and really can't be beat at the price. They're reliable and I love the Russian anger of the 7.62x54R! Plus, ammo is reasonably priced so you can go nuts without going poor! Need to save money for beer after the range!

And a Carcano is definitely on my list of favorite rifles to look at. I've never fired one, but I hear they're sweet! Plus, the whole JFK thing... I love historically significant machines!

Alfalfa > Funktheduck 01/06/2015 at 20:05

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As previously stated, gun shows are great. Do you ever visit pawn shops? It can be hit or miss (no pun intended), but you can score some good deals if you're vigilant.

Rock Bottom > vdub_nut: scooter snob 01/06/2015 at 20:05

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Everyone loves FIREBALLS and the Leprechaun!

Trunk Impaired 318 > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 20:21

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The Mosin is definitely one of my favorites and the Carcano is definitely fun, plus you can put a lot more rounds through that compared to the Mosin

Axial > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 20:31

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How does the action compare to that of a Lee-Enfield? I have one of those, and I think it's head-and-shoulders better than any Mauser action I've every used (and that includes Springfield 1903s, Mosin-Nagants of Finnish and Russian origin, and proper Mausers).

Funktheduck > Alfalfa 01/06/2015 at 20:38

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My dad has a great pawn shop that he frequents. Scores a lot of cool guns for cheap. I've only been to a few but they all have modern guns. I'm sure if I stopped in more regularly I could find something. Gun shows are probably my best bet. There's a giant antique market that shows up once a month that has one guy with seriously cool historical guns but they're far from affordable.

Rock Bottom > Axial 01/06/2015 at 20:59

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I have never held a Lee-Enfield, but I want to badly! My only other bolt-action experience is a Russian Mosin and a very new 7-08 Tika. The Mosin felt like... a Mosin, and the Tika was quite nice, but this thing is both solid as a rock and smooth as butter. It feels like it has a fair amount of mass in the bolt assembly and the "clack" of the action is super deep in tone. Sounds more like "clock", really. It just feels like a well made machine, which is what I always read about Krags before I picked this one up.

If you get a chance to compare one with your L-E, let me know how it feels!

JR1 > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 21:17

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What a fine gun. Nice write up by the way. Always wanted to get my hands on an antique but hasn't happened yet. I hope you enjoy it.

Rock Bottom > Funktheduck 01/06/2015 at 21:21

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Yeah, it really comes down to being in the right place at the right time. Whatever you get, make sure it fires a round you can actually buy! My buddy almost bought some odd-ball old rifle (might have been a Carcano) that was chambered in 6.5×54 Mannlicher! I mean, someone makes that shit, but you can't exactly wander down to Cabela's and pick up a box!

Definitely hit up gun shows though. Some are great and full of treasures, and others are awful. I mean, the last one I went to didn't have a single Mosin! Those things are all over! Be patient and wait for the right rifle to come to you. They're like women. They make a lot of noise and take all your money, but the right ones sure are fun sometimes!

Funktheduck > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 21:26

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I miss when you could get a mosin for under $100. One shop I refuse to go to because of the horrible customer service. It also has the highest prices around. They generally tack on at least $50 to msrp. They had a "sale". I went in to check things out. They had non matching numbers mosin that looked like they fell out of a cargo plane and then got run over on sale for $190

Rock Bottom > JR1 01/06/2015 at 21:27

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Thank you, sir. I aim to please!

Ya know, you can pick up old rifles for cheap (compared to most of our car habits, anyway) and the right one an look pretty cool on a shelf or over the fireplace :) Swing by your local swap meet when you're bored. Chances are someone will be selling something neat!

Rock Bottom > Funktheduck 01/06/2015 at 21:33

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Yeah, that's a terrible price. There are still some reasonable ones (certainly not perfect, but presentable) in the $140 to $150 range. You can still find the old guy with like 10 of them at a swap meet unloading them for a lot less once in a while, but that guy is getting rare.

Related: I've recently decided that vintage over-under shotguns are awesome too. Something about break-frame long guns just speaks to me!

Axial > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 21:50

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First, I'm gonna say that the Finnish Mosin's are 10x nicer than the Russian ones. Better wood, all use hexagonal receivers, and for some reason their actions are smoother. That said, because the Mauser action cocks on the draw and not on the lock, it's always bit rough to pull out and always feels kind of dead when locking. It's also nigh impossible to operate with one hand.

The Lee action, on the other hand, cocks on the lock. Because of that, it springs open when you unlock it and makes extraction almost automatic. They also have a nice, sharp "snap!" sound when they open. Locking it forward again requires a little bit of effort, but because you have better leverage with your firing hand when pushing than when pulling, you can achieve it with only the thumb. With practice, your hand muscles get strong enough to do this easily, letting you just sit there through all 10 (!) rounds without ever losing target acquisition or removing your hand from the grip. It's pretty awesome.

Mine's a 1967 Indian make in 7.62 NATO. Better steel than the British ones, but a shorter bayonet (which I also have). The NATO round makes shooting it significantly less expensive, though the holy grail of collectible rifles to me would be a Mk. V. That's an interwar version with the snub-nose of the No. 1 but the sights of a No. 4. Very pretty:

Rock Bottom > Axial 01/06/2015 at 22:01

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I never knew there was such a difference between Mosins! The one I fired was a war-time build, and you could tell it was rushed. It just looked like it survived Stalingrad, even though it was in decent shape!

The Krag cocks on the draw too, but it's very light. It was so-so before I disassembled and cleaned the hell out of it, but it's really nice feeling now. I'm curious to see how long it stays this way! Regardless, you make me want to play with a L-E more than ever now! And chambered in NATO must make that about the perfect rifle! Looks amazing, has great history, and shoots a cheap (and very good) round! Also, 10 rounds! That's nuts. In a good way.

JR1 > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 22:18

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I have never bought from a swap meet. Is there a lot of paper work that does with it form those?

Rock Bottom > JR1 01/06/2015 at 22:45

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I think it depends on the state. Most consider a long gun over 50 years old to be a "relic" and therefore uncontrolled unless it's on a specific list of "government-no-likey" guns. As far as the government is concerned with a "relic", you can meet a guy in a parking lot and trade cash or trinkets for it and be on your way. Hand guns are almost always controlled, I think.

I have never bought a gun at a show (bought lots of ammo and accessories at them), but there's almost always a sheriff booth set up with people doing paperwork. I assumed that if you were buying something requiring a background check or special license, that's what they were taking care of.

I've found that 9 out of 10 cops are gun guys and generally approve of law abiding and productive Americans getting into the hobby. I've wandered up to the front desk at the local PD (in a couple states I've lived in) a few times and asked them straight questions. They've always been super helpful and up front about the rules and how to do things right without going overboard with paperwork that you might not require. Give that a shot, if you're seriously thinking about shopping around.

JR1 > Rock Bottom 01/06/2015 at 22:54

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Not currently thinking about shopping around. For now I am happy with my Savage 116. In the future though it is something I will be looking into. Thanks for the info. Enjoy the gun. Hope to see more posts about it in the coming future

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Funktheduck 01/06/2015 at 23:10

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in Austin there is a guy at the local gun show with cases of them for $125/each (at least a few months ago.) I'm going to get a new one soon...

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Trunk Impaired 318 01/06/2015 at 23:12

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rubber buttpad was the best purchase I ever made for my mosin. I'm not a big guy but went from being able to shoot maybe 10 rounds with the stock steel plate to being able to shoot for a few hours. Still sore but waaaaaay better. The one I got isn't even really that soft, when I first got it I didn't think it would do anything...

Trunk Impaired 318 > itranthelasttimeiparkedit 01/07/2015 at 00:29

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I actually just bought a rubber buttpad and a slip on pad so Im hoping that Ill be able to shoot it just like my 12 gauge

Zharoken > Rock Bottom 08/06/2016 at 12:31

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Hey, just a small thing that is handy to know is that the Krag originaly was made for 6,5x55 and this ammunition made loading both faster and easier. Greetings from a Norwegian soldier and congratulations with a nice rifle!

Rock Bottom > Zharoken 08/07/2016 at 17:12

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Thanks for the nice comment! I’ve read that the Norwegian Krags are very different animals. Have you shot both? Mine shares it’s home with a very nice Swiss K31, a Yugo Mauser, and a Lee Enfield. Of all those, the Krag has by far the hardest kick and sharpest sound!